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Dr. Harder is a nationally recognized expert in the investigation of unidentified flying

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objects. He is research director of the Aerial Phenomenon Research Organization, the oldest

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UFO research organization. He has degrees in mechanical and civil engineering, work

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in electronics and computers. He holds his doctorate, PhD in fluid mechanics, and is

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professor of hydraulic engineering at the Berkeley campus of the University of California.

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He's one of six scientists asked to testify before the House Committee on Science and

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Astronautics when that body held hearings on the UFO problem back in 1968. Dr. James

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A. Harder, Jim.

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Ladies and gentlemen, the time is moving fast. I have prepared a seven-page copy of my remarks.

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I shall abridge some of those remarks in my spoken word here. I have also a short tape

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that I should like to play. My paper starts in the third paragraph by my remark that 15

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years ago I started asking my colleagues what motivated them to study UFOs. One answer

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which was appropriately scientific was that whatever is new and mysterious in the natural

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world contains information of possibly new scientific importance. This is the great tradition

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of science. Others thought that we might be able to discover the means to propel spacecraft

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or to exploit new kinds of energy. A motivation right out of the great tradition of engineering.

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I asked, is there anything we can learn from an extraterrestrial source that could lead

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to a stable and peaceful society? This is out of the great tradition of the religions of

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the world and perhaps for this reason it leaves us scientific types with some apprehension.

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We don't want to join a quasi-religious movement that could plunge the world back into a dark

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age of uncritical belief in witchcrafts and ghosts and all of the paraphernalia now being

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promoted under the banner of the Aquarian Age. We may applaud moral virtue, but we don't

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react well to moral platitudes relayed to us by those who have talked to the space brothers.

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But it's not fair to reject the great religious ideas and values just because there are religious

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fanatics. Likewise, we don't reject scientific values just because there are scientists who

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let their emotions govern their logic. But the scientists have asked a logical question.

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If there are intelligent occupants to UFOs, why haven't they come down to talk to us?

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Only we must concede that if they so wished, they have the means, if not the motivation,

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to make them very clear that they are here. They could land on the White House long or

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ask to address the meeting of the United Nations. They have done none of these things as far

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as we know. And even if they had, it's unlikely that it was if it were not their purpose that

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this could be kept secret from us. So even if we have a motivation to study them, we

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are faced with the apparent motivation on their part not to want to be studied by us.

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Perhaps we are forever to be in the position of laboratory rats who may, at their own level,

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feebly wonder why they are the objects of so much human attention. But if in spite of

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the obstacles we have, we wanted to study alien cultures, what would be the best method?

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One in the one I've employed over the past seven years has been to concentrate on interviewing

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those who have reported face-to-face encounters. Neither you and I would wish, however, to

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be merely exploring the imagination of deluded folk or to leave behind our critical faculty.

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So a first step would be to try to authenticate that aliens actually do talk to humans. The

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most completely verified evidence so far is contained in the Travis Walton case, 1975.

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Well reported. I give two references. The fact is that the stories of the six witnesses

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to this abduction were subjected to a polygraph test administered by a police official who

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was acting on the assumption that the six had murdered Travis and had buried his body.

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The result of one of the tests was inconclusive, but the polygraph operator said and told me

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that if there were a hoax, five of the six had no prior knowledge of it and that the

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story they told about the UFO was the truth as they knew it. This case doesn't prove other

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cases, of course, but it does say that other cases are reasonably possible and we none

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not be preoccupied with proving UFO contact in a general sense.

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Kind of like the time that the French Academy of Sciences investigated meteorites in 1803,

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and after that everyone concluded that meteorites were really true and not just hot rocks picked

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up by ignorant farmers. Now we don't have any evidence that Travis had any verbal communication

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with the alien group. He only remembers about one hour out of 125. He was given some dire

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warning about remembering more. I have many other cases, though, in which two-way conversations

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were reported. In the Pat Price case, for instance, there were four other witnesses who could

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be hypnotized and who gave confirming evidence that the abduction actually took place. Moreover,

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two of the witnesses described the physical appearances of these aliens in good detail

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to the point where I could recognize them as members of what I call group B. The two witnesses

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were interviewed separately one after another and each revealed in hypnosis details that

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they had not previously remembered consciously and their description was very close to descriptions

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given by other witnesses in other parts of the country. And the group B aliens have never

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been publicly described in any detail even to this day.

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But given these facts, how could we believe that the actual conversation took place as

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she described it? I'd like to play part of one tape of an interview I had with her just

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as it was originally recorded, traffic noise and all. She was remembering a conversation

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with one of the aliens on board.

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He talked to me.

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He just talked and he played.

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Did you notice he had his hands?

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He closed.

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Can you remember how many fingers were closed?

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They were three. He closed.

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When he looked bigger than the other two.

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He told me about them.

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He started to notice something that they were on the other side.

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Did you see what he was saying?

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I don't know. He missed it.

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Was he about the same people who were at the table with you?

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The same kind of people.

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He wasn't a member.

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I thought there were some other non-unus.

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They were around the table.

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He looked just like him.

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He said he was talking.

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No, he said it was a pisk.

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He said it was a pisk and then he said,

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I'm sure.

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I think I can understand.

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He was a duck.

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He was talking to me.

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He told me everything.

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I remember it was a pisk.

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Did he see something?

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He spoke to me.

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What was something like that?

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I don't know if it's a lady, so I don't think anybody can do it.

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What was the way it was?

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Did he say?

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He told me something about the new plans.

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What was the way it was?

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I don't think he said anything.

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I don't think he said anything.

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I don't think he said anything.

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He doesn't think I do.

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I don't think he said anything.

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I don't think he did.

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I don't think he said anything.

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I don't think he said anything.

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I don't think people can coexist.

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I don't know.

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What kind of plans do you draw in this recording?

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Any plans?

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I don't know why that didn't work.

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I said it wouldn't do.

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I don't think it would affect them, too.

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I don't know what I was talking about.

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He just scared me.

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He said he would embrace the community and stroke me so much.

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I don't think so.

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Did you agree with him?

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I don't think he's very destructive.

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I don't think any of your plans are destructive.

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They were very determined about something.

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I know.

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I don't know.

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I don't think he said anything.

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Later on, she told me, I hope they all crash.

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I think it should be clear that this subject was not in any sort of ready agreement

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or even understanding, perhaps, of what she was being told.

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She had been making up the story or even hallucinating the experience.

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It seems to me that she would have taken a very different form.

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She was plainly not in control or reporting a conversation that reflected her own belief system.

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In this instance, we have an overwhelming amount of external and internal evidence that

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the conversation actually took place, much as she described.

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One of the earliest people who reported a conversation, of course, was Betty Hill back in 1961.

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She reported to me and recall clearly in hypnosis that the leader spoke good English

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and that it seemed to be vocalized and not a mental transmission.

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Furthermore, a second alien, the so-called medical examiner, spoke English too, but with a horrible accent.

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The still third case we have is that of Sergeant Charles Moody, who reported a conversation in English,

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also vocalized by an older alien who seemed to be their leader.

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Some of the other aliens on board, crew members, perhaps, were trying to mimic his speech but in guttural tones.

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The leader, seeing the Moody, was uncomfortable motion to them and they stood back as made him more comfortable.

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In these three examples, the witnesses were able to recall the physical appearance of the aliens very well

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and all the descriptions were consistent within each case.

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They were plainly not members of the same species.

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Reports in which aliens are able to articulate English or other spoken languages are distinctly in the minority.

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In some instances, it appears that the communication is via some kind of synthesized speech.

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The witness reported to me that during her experience, she encountered an alien who was holding a small box.

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The box made some kind of noise and the alien turned the knob on.

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The box made a different kind of noise and the alien turned the knob again.

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Then finally the box said, do you speak English?

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She nodded her head and from then on the conversation was in English.

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When I asked her if the noise had ever said Parle-vous-Français or Habla Espagnol or Sprecken-Siegdeutsch,

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she had no absolute idea. What a frustration!

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Apparently I should revise my earlier observation that if the aliens are smart enough to make it across interstellar distances,

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they are smart enough to learn languages other than English.

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For the most part, however, the communications are via some kind of telepathy.

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Typical comments are, I heard it in my head.

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I just knew what he wanted me to do or he answered my question before I got the words out.

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Given that much evidence is accumulating that some humans are able to communicate by mental means,

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even though we have no idea of a mechanism, it should not be too much of a surprise to find

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that intense cultures have developed this ability to a greater degree.

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These examples are but a small part of the evidence that supports the hypothesis that aliens do communicate with people.

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This wouldn't be so surprising except that what seems to be happening is really so logical.

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If we start with the premise that UFOs are real, are real spacecraft,

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there's hardly any other conclusion possible.

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UFO skeptics, we have many of our favorite skeptics,

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they concentrate on arguing that every and each state case must be either a mistake or a hoax.

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For if they were to admit that just one of the thousands of reports were real and true,

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they would be vulnerable to a chain of reasonable deductions that would be worth shattering to them.

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The logic takes you to wondering not why there has not,

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not if there has been alien contact with humans,

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but why there has not been more and why it has been not more public.

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So we return to a question I asked earlier.

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If our intelligent occupants, why have they not communicated with our leaders?

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Why also has no one, at least that I've interviewed,

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ever been given any meaningful information of a scientific sort or a technical sort?

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All of this suggests that there is little intention that humans be given information of any kind,

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of any kind of a technical sort.

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And when you add to this the general secretiveness displayed by UFOs,

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it develops the basis for two different and opposing views of what the alien policies might be.

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Our birth science and technology continue at their present pace,

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and our technical civilization doesn't blow itself up.

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We may be able to travel between the stars within the next 200 years.

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Members of an advanced civilization may be better able to predict this timetable than are we.

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If this is a prospect that's likely, what would be their attitude?

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Given the history of colonization here on Earth and the fatalistic attitude towards controlling population,

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except maybe in China, our possible presence in other parts of the universe

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might be looked on with less than enthusiasm.

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If UFO aliens can look that far forward, it must seem to them that they and the human race

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may be in for some kind of a confrontation.

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Under such circumstances it should not be surprising that they would try to learn as much as possible about us,

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while revealing as little as possible about themselves and their technology.

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One interpretation of this lack of communication must seem rather ominous

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to members of the U.S. and national security agencies from other nations.

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If another nation here on Earth had been taking advantage of a superior technology to spy on the U.S.

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and had shown no evidence of friendly contact,

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our intelligence agencies would surely consider them to be enemies.

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Our armed forces would take the view that the destroying, truning aircraft that show no sign of acknowledgement

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is the right of every sovereign state,

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at least for a while it seemed to be the policy of the Air Force.

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And if they did not get shot out of the sky, it was merely because they had a superior speed and altitude capability.

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But maybe it is not fair to project to another civilization some of our more aggressive stance.

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Humans also have the capacity for humanitarian impulses,

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to wish to help the less fortunate members of the world community who are facing starvation and poverty.

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By analogy, could we not assume that a highly developed civilization might have some of these same benevolent attitudes?

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And if there are more than a few of them, at least one or more of them would have such a point of view.

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Many of us cannot be convinced of this.

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One reason for our doubt lies in the way that the Contact D groups harp on the theme of brotherly love from the skies.

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We tend to think that the Contact Ds are a gullible lot and don't wish to be associated with gullibility.

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On the other hand, we know we have heard that an idea is not responsible for those who advocate it,

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and we have to evaluate the ideas on their own merits and not on the basis of built-by association.

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So let's ignore the paranoia of the intelligence community and the Contact D claims of benevolence

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and use our own reason.

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And the vast volumes that make up the history of the universe surely a million years is about a very short page.

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It is asking too much to believe that it was mere accident that UFOs appeared in the 1940s for the first time.

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It's logical to assume that they've been here for a long time, although some of us don't like this because we were turned off by Von Daniken.

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If I look at the recent history, the airship reports of the 1890s, the reports which appear very much like UFO reports that were interpreted as a miracle,

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taught them out of Portugal in 1917.

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This suggests that if there has been or were a plot to take over and colonize Earth with some exotic species,

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it could have or should have taken place a long time ago.

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I know that some have argued that humans themselves are some kind of an exotic species.

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Perhaps the degenerate forms of early gods are space beings.

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I think this theory runs into insurmountable difficulties, though, when you consider how very similar are all human biochemical processes to those of other Earth fauna.

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For example, there is only one amino acid residue difference between insulin and a complicated molecule in the insulin drive from humans and that drive from pig pancreas.

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But then how primitive would it be to merely take over and supplant one biological species with another?

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How much more sophisticated to supplant one idea system with another?

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It's entirely possible that some alien groups would not mind it at all if Earth's technical civilizations should destroy itself.

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A neat way of avoiding a confrontation.

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On the other hand, it is also a reasonable hypothesis that some have a benevolent as well as a curious interest in the struggles and conflicts on planet Earth.

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If they did have a benevolent influence, we might ask how it could be put into a practical application, as I mentioned.

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Would it be helpful for an extraterrestrial being to come down and address a session of the United Nations and tell us where we have been going wrong?

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Sensational headlines and all the tabloids.

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But would the effect last?

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After a few weeks it would be back to Monday evening football.

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Why should we listen to wisdom from an extraterrestrial source?

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When we don't listen to wisdom we already have.

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If the late Bertrand Russell had been eligible under our rules and had run for president against any one of our recent candidates, including the incumbent, who do you think would win?

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Perhaps Lord Russell would not have been a very effective president.

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He couldn't have communicated properly with Congress and the other masses.

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He and Einstein had a lot of wisdom we haven't yet understood, in part because it seems so impractical.

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I sometimes fantasized a situation in which some well-meaning but naive aliens should try to address us and answer our questions of what we should do to put our house in order to achieve the world peace that we so devoutly wish.

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I'm not sure that we'd be prepared to hear the advice we might get.

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We could agree that wars and conflicts must come to an end if the world is to enter a new age of prosperity and peace.

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But much of the conflicts we suffer are a result of an essentially unlimited population potential pressing on a strictly limited world resource.

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The solution? Population control? Of course.

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Not birth control, in which the able and conscientious limit their numbers, and those with no scruples do not.

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But we would see in population control a limitation on individual freedom that would be insufferable.

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And so it would be with many things that we could learn about civilizations and other parts of the universe.

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The price to be paid for stability and peace in terms of social control over individual and collective aggrandizement is a price we are not yet willing to pay.

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I don't think we're yet ready to hear these things.

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And though some have speculated that the UFO aliens look down on us as a group of monkeys or ants unworthy of serious communication,

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there is an alternative, that they perceive that we are not yet at level to understand the wisdom they could offer.

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Perhaps they hope that we can discover this level ourselves, because no one else is going to make that discovery for us.

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We need to go beyond the emotional level of wishing for goodwill and peace, and present and look for the ways of the mind that can tell us of how these can be fostered and preserved.

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In other parts of the universe, perhaps, there has been the time to discover all of these things.

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If civilizations elsewhere have brought themselves to a high level of understanding and have survived, we may be able to do it too.

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One of our scientists once said that the real secret of the atomic bomb was that it worked.

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The real secret of the UFOs is that they have come from civilizations that have worked in diverse ways and have endured.

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We need to learn whichever of those secrets will work for humanity.

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This is the enduring challenge for all of us.

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UFO research workers are in a unique position because of their open-minded attitudes to begin to comprehend these broader implications of the UFOs,

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including what we can learn from alien communication with humans.

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But being open-minded is not enough.

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This can lead to nothing but credulity.

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One must also bring to this study the most severe sort of critical faculties and employ the best of scientific logic.

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Then perhaps we can make sense of the communications that have taken place, and we can reach a point where additional communication may be possible.

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Thank you very much.

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Thank you.